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NorthWind Sample
Questions and Answers about our "Soup to Nuts" NukeDK sample of the Northwind Database.
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mlarsen
Posts:49
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| 03/28/2006 12:30 AM |
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Could you package the sample so that it could be recreated by users? This is a fantastic resource for learning what you can do with ListX/Toolbar but if you need a specific skin, graphics, stored procedures, CSS and layout that is not described or explained you spend a lot of time just trying to figure out what you need to recreate before you can learn.
Thanks for the fantastic sample! |
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cchodnicki
Posts:107
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| 03/28/2006 3:12 PM |
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Great idea. We have this and several additional features noted to add. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
Chris Chodnicki
Bi4ce |
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daflea
Posts:79
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| 04/07/2006 9:27 AM |
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Any word on this package, I belive this would help me greatly on my learning endevor I have undertook.
Doug |
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ahock
Posts:8
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| 04/08/2006 10:33 PM |
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Yikes. I'm not having much luck w/B4rce products. Ordered the CSS Editor (doesn't work w/IE 6 or Firefox 1.5 and 4.0.3), the Navigator (purchased a stated 4.0 version on Snowcovered, but the zip only contains the 3.1 version...
And now I just tried installing the ListX (which looks great!), and I see NOWHERE to tell the module what DATABASE I want to hit. And zero documentation. Hmm. Looks like I won't be doing any work with any of these modules this weekend. Oh well.
If someone at some point could point me to some documentation or an answer to the question (where do I specify the database?)...I'd appreciate it. |
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kevinmschreiner
Posts:749
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| 04/10/2006 9:52 AM |
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You may have overlooked the in depth, and fully completed help documentation which is provided within not only ListX but Toolbar and Navigator as well. We don't provide our help in PDF format, because, quite simply, that isn't very useful when you are in need of "Quick" help within the use of the module. Instead, and more in-line with what DNN standards recommend. We utilize the "Online Help" - which is a link provided within the Action (Drop Down) menu of the module instance itself. Anytime you want to view the help - click the "Online Help" menu item. Or, you could view the README.HTML, or view the full help content directly via HELP.HTML and its seperate pages within the installed Modules directory. For instance - /DesktopModules/ListX/Help.html. We also have links throughout our site to the same help documentation we deliver within our products.
Or you can view them from our website here:
ListX - http://dnn.bi4ce.com/desktopmodules/ListX/Help.html
Toolbar - http://dnn.bi4ce.com/desktopmodules/Toolbar/Help.html
Navigator - http://dnn.bi4ce.com/desktopmodules/Navigator/Help.html |
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Kevin M Schreiner
Business Intelligence Force, Inc. (bi4ce)
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kevinmschreiner
Posts:749
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| 04/10/2006 9:55 AM |
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Oh, and - all Bi4ce Modules have been tested and found to work on DNN 4, with no exceptions. The CSS/Editor has been tested extremely thoroughly, and was painstakingly crafted to work flawlessly in both IE and Firefox (which cannot be said for MANY MANY other DNN modules on the market). Make sure that you open a Css file which contains class names and attributes, if the CSS file doesn't have this, you won't see any class names or attributes. Also, click anywhere in the modules where you see the < ? > links, as they are all targeted help documentation for the specific section with which you are working.
Please let us know if you hit any more snags! |
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Kevin M Schreiner
Business Intelligence Force, Inc. (bi4ce)
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pstewart
Posts:32
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| 08/09/2006 10:07 PM |
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I must say that the NukeDK and Northwind demo are all wonderful things, but what actually suprises me here is that bi4ce is kinda not paying attention to some of the biggest compliants i have seen in my quest to understand the technology. I see so many post on users of NukeDK products requesting access to the actual working modal of the northwind demo, i see a promise to make it available from the bi4ce team and here 5 months later still no downloads. I see promises of new samples (all which have been said to be working inhouse) and all these great things dating back so long ago in my opinion that for sure something could have been made available.
Now don't get me wrong, This set of modules are nothing to play with, very well crafted super powerful however, let me ask. Do you really know how many sales you are potentially loosing by failing to at minimal make due on what you say in a reasonable time frame. It is unfair for you to finance ops on sales that users get frustrated trying to use not because theres not a huge (bloated) 300 page manual (like xMod) but because you have failed to provide the basic examples needed to really get a grip on these products. In a post i read here a user complained of just that and he was told that bi4ce felt that he nor anyone else needed the demo because it was well (a cakewalk). I disagree the sample however simple is a very good example with much to be learned from. how you did this is just as important as copying the xml files.
1. The xml files alone do not tell the whole story
A. the layout is just as important in learning how all the pieces fit together. with no access all code loads basicly broken because of the custom skins and css classess it's then up to you to figure it out minus admin access to see it in action from and administrative view as well and a page layout view. this will help learn construction in an end to end manner not half of it. FACT.
2. bi4ce is flawed in their marketing tactics to assume the level of their users expertice. It appears by the number of post that many are beginners to novice.
3. To forget why Microsoft released northwind in the first place was to provide a sample database that could be used for ? It is a good database to learn from and combine that with the demo site and WOW it's a good day in DotNetNuke Land. But, not if you don't make the demo available. Personnaly i would benifit greatly from a working demo on my local machine as i could expand upon it with ease using what is laid out to create my application. Say for example a (nukeDK Starter Kit  ) come on bi4ce wake up put the sample out here a online demo on your servers does us no good.
I searched and searched these forums many hours prior to my purchase i noted all the complaints and rants and the responses, what i also noted was the dates of these post. Many are old and one could assume that your gonna make due on promises for downloads of demos and samples any day now. I assumed it and took a chance on spending money with bi4ce based on that with hopes of relief. I have spent a few thousand dollars over the last week or so on DNN Modules in support of the community. Help us out bi4ce, Kick In spread the love, give us northwind.
It's really simple just zip it up and put it out it does not have to be perfect, in fact none of the samples you folks are holding out on must be perfect. just working and some of us can gtake it from there. it wont need to be installed just make a IIS directory and run real simple ( i assume could be wrong).
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pstewart
Posts:32
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| 08/09/2006 10:19 PM |
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| heres another ideal, download the ultrdev cassinni aspx server load northwind into it, package it up and distribute it pre installed in its own web server (like sugar crm does with spike source (apache)) that can coexsist with IIS no problem. this would allow us to just install and run with no core dnn installation process or database issues because the host server is also shipped with northwind. it will work. i can do it if you dont have the time just make the demo available to me and ill take care of it and post back the finished distro. what do ya think? |
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pstewart
Posts:32
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| 08/10/2006 12:38 AM |
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One More thing... some of us need to be able to hack this demo to get up to a faster level of productivity with these mods. by not making it available we too suffer economic loss as we spend more time replacing your suite because it is a steep curve and has already cost us hours on days of headachs. we want to be able to offer LP apps for our clients and cannot in a RAD fashion because you guys keep promising things you don't produce. I myself dont have the time to waste on learning new technologies when i need to get a project out the door. the demo has so much to offer in educational value and can help any project that would have some of the same data schema concepts rapid fire Ie, CRM, ERP, Accounting Apps. How could your team really tell us that you fail to see the value in making this available unless we were building a northwind app.
Last time i checked SQL code was editable and can be extended to fit many use cases. So this database may be a good reference point for many, remember DotNetNuke it self is a by product of one of these samples that was put out by Microsoft (Remeber IBuySpy) This whole thing including BI4CE would be nowhere if Microsoft had acted like you are and only teased us with IBuySpy hence no DNN.
All In All I mean no disrespect im frustrated because unless you delete this whole forum i can show you many commitments made to supply yet no delivery. check it out for yourselves read your forums. All good software evolves from its demonstrations and samples and the users ability to grasp it quickly to get the job done. Where would you be if the DNN Core team failed to clue us in on how to use the framework in the first place holding out till the next release the next release.... come on ... |
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cchodnicki
Posts:107
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| 08/14/2006 9:44 PM |
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Patrick
Your points are valid and well taken. Constructive criticism is always welcome and we thank you for the input.
With that said here is a bit of chronology and frankness as to why the LP has not been released yet and what we are working on to get as much support to everyone as quickly as possible.
First we built the original NorthWind Order Entry system example using the 1.6.5 version of NukeDk. It did not have LP capability. Then unlike what we advice clients, we were under the impression that we had a clean, regular backup of the DB that drives the NW site. The server this was hosted on crashed and had to be rebuilt. Of course our scheduled backup routines did NOT include the NW DB!@#$! Combine this with the new release of NukeDk/ListX and basically the sample had to be rebuilt from scratch.
Our mistake was the new NW sample incorporated certain aspects of the skin elements. Thus if we generated an LP it would actually be valueless to users as you would be required to have the skin and some associated settings in order for this to work appropriately.
So - we are working on making the necessary corrections to the sample such that an LP can be generated and distributed.
In addition we WILL also have additional ListX examples in the next patch release of NukeDK/ListX due out by August 16th. Included in the documentation will be many more examples of how to use NukeDk. Our goal is to also have associated videos to go along with those examples but these will not be ready by the 16th - only the documentation of the examples.
Finally - we will also be releasing several LP's that will be available for free. These will have specific functionality and be distributed both for learning purposes as well as a practical DNN use.
As we have admittedly NOT been the best at making all deadlines. I will not give a date to when the free LP's will be available - but I would guestimate by the end of the month.
Thanks for being patient and giving us input.
Chris Chodnicki
Bi4ce |
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pstewart
Posts:32
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| 08/15/2006 10:10 PM |
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Thanks Chris
For the response i can appreciate that you have remodaled the demo and can continue to hold out for a release however, i'm getting a clear picture of whats going on here and quite frankly, (I'm Excited) As i experiment with the xml code from the demo it has become very apparent that the NUKEDK ROCK'S. I have searched all over the web for something like this (glad i found it). I also have xMod and H20 and in comparison H20 is out, xMod has way more features and such but is a serious learning curve (for me) and i noted that even with all those features I still choose to use NukeDK in my app development. Reason Why is that all the feature differences between xmod and lsitx did not make listx less powerful than xmod, in fact throw in the toolbar and the breadcrumb (i also added gomap, css.editor and navigator) and you've got a world class toolkit.
Now for me adding DNN Stuffs Aggregator and ZLDnn Module Wrapper completed my dev kit. Awesome...
I would imagine that over time some of the features that are present in xmod may make there way into this toolkit (i.e ability to use Ascx custom forms while still using listx framework) and such i know that most things are present already. All in all i was a faithful bi4ce customer and even came back and purchased all of your software. Because in my opinion Your nukedk was not complete without the rest of your tools. Do i see a enterprise edition coming that is a bundle of all your tools? (Listx, Toolbar, Css.Editor, Gomap, Navigator) although the toolbar appears to be just as capable as the navigator but any way all of these tools in the same environment spells relief. Also for me adding the aggragator and mod wrapper provided me the ability to produce the tab like areas af the northwind sample like the customers view with products on one and demographics on the other with ease and the mod wrapper lets me expand upon the DK by loading listx mods pretty much however i see fit side by side left and right whatever. let me use and layout multiple listx mods to make a custom report using several listx mods in a custom table. ( although i am seeing how listx can do this to ) still makes a good addition though. Kudo's I have no regrets and hope to see new features as this product evolves.
So lets see a NukeDK Enterprise Suite with
1. Listx
2. Toolbar
3. Breadcrumb
4. CSS Editor
5. Navigator
6. GoMap
7. Aggregator
8. Mod Wrapper
Heck with just these mods you can acomplish anything. Thanks Bi4ce. And can't wait to see more samples..
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beetosantos
Posts:3
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| 08/16/2006 8:44 PM |
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| I live in the Brazil and the examples would be of great aid. I am also waiting. TIA. |
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luckydogsystems
Posts:2
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| 08/27/2006 9:02 AM |
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Hi,
Please add me to the list of customers anxiously awaiting a packaged Northwind app. I'm excited to get moving forward with this product and a full-blown example is what I need to really kick the learning curve into high gear. There is nothing like digging into the code of a sample application to understand how the product works.
Thanks, Al |
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rtonerii
Posts:310
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| 09/09/2006 1:44 AM |
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Hi Chris,
Please add me to your list when you make a package. We are needing a little more of a details app to make ours work.
Thanks
Rick |
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Bobc292072
Posts:4
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| 11/06/2006 8:23 AM |
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Hey Chris,
Another vote for the package! I would love to ramp up my efforts and demo seems a very good way to get started.
Thanks
BobC |
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Bobc292072
Posts:4
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| 11/06/2006 12:40 PM |
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Hey Chris,
Can you provide the "page.ASCX"? I like the structure and would change the look. But why reinvent the wheel?
If your page is a skin then that should be an easy offer to your loyal customer community 
Would be great if you could offer that out today, I am needing something like this to complete a project Tuesday.
Thanks
Bob C |
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cchodnicki
Posts:107
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| 11/07/2006 7:50 PM |
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Bob
I emailed you today but it bounced. I beleive for some reason our Bi4ce ISP does not handle AOL based email accounts.
Anyway the NorthWind Skin is not available commercially (or free). We put a considerable amount of effort on the skin. We are considering offering it commercially.
Sorry we could not help for your project.
Chris Chodnicki
Bi4ce |
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Bobc292072
Posts:4
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| 11/11/2006 3:09 PM |
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Chris,
Thanks for the attempt!
I can appreciate the decision to offer as a commercial skin, but really only wanted to emulate the demo you provided for your product. I have a need to create this simple look minus the graphics and wanted to ramp up quickly. More interested in the navigation part, the button view would have made my project stand out, as does the demo.
You may want to consider offering it up as a bonus for current and future customers.
Thanks
BobC
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pstewart
Posts:32
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| 11/12/2006 10:45 PM |
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Hello BobC
I believe we share some of the same interest and if i understand your needs this may help
http://www.cssplay.co.uk/layouts/basics2.html#Middle
I understand your post to mean that you want to emulate how the skin functions by design more the how it looks, and maybe you were wanting fixed headers and footers and a navigation pane just like the sample. If so the link will show you some ways of doing just that you will still need to create a skin using these techniques if at all possible, i'm attemping to do so as we post and admit i have no ideal if the eample can even work as a dnn skin but it is just html and css so it should. If so, then it would be easy to create a skin similar to the sample and as always the xml files are available within the NukeDK Northwind sample and can be used to placehold sections of an application that may have similar models and can easily be adapted to another table in any database. I find this to be very helpful because it forces me to understand how the developers of Listx created each aspect as you cannot adapt it without hacking the original source and it is truly a wealth of professional knowledge. Once you have that it is a breeze (to some extent, listx is so powerful) So i will use the northwind xml files as templates to get me moving, they can almost be adapted into any scenerio and display the most common methods of data integration. Hope this helps.. |
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